C1OC - Citroen C1, Peugeot 107 & Toyota Aygo Owners Club

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:08 pm 
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This is my second new c1 in 4 years. They do exactly what they say they do, brilliant little car. So why change, the first got chopped in for the identical second c1 because i got run into, and after the repairs the passenger door would not stop leaking no matter how many trips to the dealer. I virtually drove one car in to complain and drove another home (£2K the lighter I may add)

What happened yesterday has turned me completely off Citroen not the c1 the dealership and hence the company. The rear hatch exploded whilst i was in the car in my drive just about to turn the key to start her up. the dealer wanted to see the car as it was to assess the situation, they had it within 30min from it happening. Less than 24 hours have elapsed now i have my distressed c1 back in my own garage c/w shattered glass scratched paint work and a verbal confirmation that since no other incidents like this have been reported it will NOT be covered by the Citroen warranty. They did offer to mend it for £400

So I’m claiming off my insurance first claim in 42 years of driving and the c1 will be chopped in for something else, shame that 42 years to find out that warranty and customer care can not translate to French.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:07 pm 
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It's not a common thing whatsoever for that to happen.

There was a mention of it the other day, but otherwise I've never known it to happen before at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I would've been an outside influence that caused this. Glass does not spontaneously structurally fail without some other mechanical or thermal influence. The fact that you have failed to identify the cause does not make it Citroens fault. Changing to another brand will not prevent the same thing occuring if the situation should be exactly repeated, so it seems a churlish reaction. To criticise Cit for something that is, frankly, nothing to do with them is little short of ridiculous. Indeed, all power to the dealer for keeping an open mind and inviting the car in for a look see.

When the front door at my first house shattered while i was asleep one night, i did not start ranting about how crap Everest were - something had obviously caused it, and not being able to establish what does not suddenly make Everest responsible.

There was an issue with some SMARTS suffering rear windows shattering, which was identified as faulty rear window amplifiers overheating the glass. Again, a thermal influence that in this case took about an hour of cooking to bring about.

Roc wrote:
There was a mention of it the other day, but otherwise I've never known it to happen before at all.

That was someone who had the hatch ripped out their hand in the wind.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:45 pm 
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lastcitroen4me wrote:
since no other incidents like this have been reported it will NOT be covered by the Citroen warranty.

Car companies seem to "make up on the fly" what is and is not covered by warranty. For example, Audi are refusing to fix problems with the bucket seats on the RS4 because "it's a common problem" - isn't that exactly what warranties are supposed to cover?

Contact Honest John at the Daily Telegraph - it's amazing how bad publicity in a national newspaper can suddenly change what's possible...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:34 pm 
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I don't quite see how HJ is going to help him with something that is clearly nothing to do with cit?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Had this happen myself about 20 years ago with a fiat uno :oops:
Dropping the kids at school one morning when the eldest one asked where the burning smell was comming from. :shock:

Before i could say pardon,the rear window shattered,,turned out the rubber around the window had leaked a little water into the rear demister wires.

when i turned the demister on the wiring shorted and over heated the window.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:12 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
I don't quite see how HJ is going to help him with something that is clearly nothing to do with cit?

Is that an assumption?

This appeared to happen less than 24 hours after the new C1 was collected from the dealer - which suggests there MAY have been something wrong with it. User error is unlikely since this was the second C1 that "lastcitroen4me" had owned, and the problem didn't happen with his other C1.

Is it not possible that the hinges were incorrectly fitted at the factory and that the glass had been stressed, causing the glass to fracture?

What concerns me is the "nothing to do with us" attitude of the dealership and Citroen. On a car apparently less than 24 hours old it's not unreasonable to expect the manufacturer and/or dealer to sort the problem at their expense. If they don't then bad publicity is the answer.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:42 pm 
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It is a large assumption, but knowing how the hinges are bonded on i can't see it. The hinges either place stress or torsion through the glass, or the don't - they don't suddenly decide "lets pop some force though this glass fitting".

I could believe a HRW could do it, as it is not unheard of and has been a noted problem on some makes. However, it takes a while for the sufficient thermal energy to be generated to do the job.

The final alternative is some kind of outside influence. Occam's Razor leaves us at this conclusion. It is itself an assumption you are making, but my assumption is backed up by mathematics - of all the car, or even house windows that are broken every day, only a tiny proportion fail as a result of something in-situ, a spontaneous failure. The huge majority fail due to an outside mechanical or thermal influence, and with no evidence whatsoever to the contrary it is not only logical, but mathematically expedient to conclude this is the case here.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:55 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
knowing how the hinges are bonded on i can't see it.

Consider the possibility of the hinges having been bonded onto the glass out of parallel - cars are built by people using mechanical aids, so errors will happen. If the hinges are bonded out of parallel, then stress will be placed on the glass each time it is opened and will lead to failure.

Bernard wrote:
The huge majority fail due to an outside mechanical or thermal influence, and with no evidence whatsoever to the contrary it is not only logical, but mathematically expedient to conclude this is the case here.

A huge majority does not equal 100%.

It seems to me that it is entirely possible for an error during build to have led to such a premature failure. Given that possibility, and the rarity of this happening, it strikes me that for the sake of customer relations the rear window should be replaced at no cost to the owner in this case - ths cost of bad publicity (which is why this thread even exists) is much greater than the cost of just replacing it.

As a senior manager at the Ford Research Centre at Dunton in Essex told me a few years ago "people tell nobody about good customer service, but they tell at least 7 people on average about bad customer service" - in the age of the internet I think that 70 or 700 or even 7,000 is closer to the mark now.

The bottom line is that it CANNOT be proven beyond reasonable doubt that it was owner error or a build error (or any other factor), so the minimal cost involved says that the sensible course of action is just to take the hit and replace it at Citroen's expense.

Unless, of course, Citroen like bad publicity...because that's what they're getting at the moment!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:08 pm 
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PetrolDave wrote:
A huge majority does not equal 100%.
Absolutely!

But with no evidence to the contrary, Occam's Razor prevails and we have to choose the massively most likely scenario.

I also have a bit of an issue with the hinge-stress scenario. Glass is not ductile, or subject to stress and fatigue in the same way metals are. The hinges are either providing sufficient torsion to break the glass, or they're not - they don't suddenly provide such force, and the effect of stress on glass is not cumulative over time, so there are physical reasons relating to the characteristics of the material involved that make this impossible.

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