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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Drives: 2008 Aygo + 2008 107
Hi

From about 2010 some of these cars increasingly seem to come with steering wheel paddle change. Having come from an MMT Yaris and a Peugeot 1007 Sport I've kind of got used to having the paddles and its the one thing I miss big time with the 2008 Aygo and 107.

I've seen paddle change equipped steering wheels from C1's and Aygo's sold on ebay for fairly sensible money and I'm tempted... but does anyone know if the wring loom and connector is there on the pre 2010, standard car.

Its shown in the Haynes manual - but whether that is just because the manual covers vehicles of all ages. What I'm hoping is that, like the rev counter, there will be a nice unused connector block on the dash assembly, ready to take the paddle connector from the new wheel - but I cant afford to fork out £50 and several hours taking a steering wheel off, only to find out it isnt there.

So can anyone enlighten me please? All info gratefully recieved.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:38 pm 
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If only it were that simple. Steering wheel aside, there is lots of other gubbins you would need to source, fit and configure to even have a hope of this working. Sooooooo not worth it - sorry.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Drives: 2008 Aygo + 2008 107
I think we may be at cross purposes here. I'm not asking whether it can be done? I already know that it can! I just dont know exactly how much work I'm going to have to do.

So can you be more specific about what else I need to source? Because from what I KNOW - and what I've read in the tech manuals, even the early gearbox controllers DID have the connection terminals for the three wires that go to the paddles, and indeed the programming for it to work. They have to because essentially the same system is already active when one drives the car in manual mode. ALL cars including mine can already do that, using the gear shift lever to initiate the changes. So from that I surmise that actually it actually cant be that difficult to fit the dupllcate system.

What I dont know is if the paddle terminals on the gearbox controller plug just dont go anywhere, or whether the wires are there in the harness - and then the only problems would lie in the steering wheel and dashbaord assembly. In reality I'm just being lazy - I can and will find out by dissasembly and tracing it all through, but I was hoping someone would already know and save me the voyage of discovery.

It really isnt that complex a system mod. The paddles are simply like logic switches - you take a line momentarily low, and that causes the gearbox computer to initiate a change up or down. I know exactly how it works because I'm a graduate engineer with over thirty years experience of computer and electromechanical engineering. I know the logic is all there - because as I said it has to be, otherwise the existing manual driving mode, which all the cars have as standard, by using the gear stick, simply wouldnt work.

The system - is activated by moving the gear lever into the manual position - and in the cars that also have paddles fitted, the paddles then also become active, acting in parallel to the switches on the gear shift assembly. That much I know - what I dont understand - and want to know is precisely what additional bits I would need other than the steering wheel with paddles, to connect them through from the steering assembly to the controller. Clearly there needs to be a wiring harness - what else? Oh an I have an ODP programmer - and the necessary access software so I can enter any necessary changes to the ECU and Gearbox system.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:38 pm 
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On manual cars the 'gearbox controller' is the driver. There isn't any electronics controlling the gearchange.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Drives: 2008 Aygo + 2008 107
ade33 wrote:
On manual cars the 'gearbox controller' is the driver. There isn't any electronics controlling the gearchange.


But my car, like all bugs, is a semi-auto in that it has a switchable manual mode - which is activated by moving the gear stick to the right - one then drives the car as if driving a manual transmission save for the absense of a clutch. The paddles I am talking about simply electrically duplicate that existing manual shift action, but place them on the steering wheel for easier reach.

In any case I have now dismantled the assembly and I can see that it is indeed possible to retrofit - as I suspected, with quite minimal work, so I have now answered my own question.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Drives: 14 Plate Peugeot 107
Glad you managed to answer this, but not all bugs are semi-auto. The bugs have 2 different gear systems - the 2-tronic/semi-auto with the switchable manual (which obviously has the electrics you need), or the full manual which has no electrics related to the gearing at all. I think there's been slight confusion about that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Very few are semi-auto, most bugs are extremely manual.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:11 am 
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Location: Hemel
Drives: 107Allure5D62plate
jennyd60 wrote:
ade33 wrote:
On manual cars the 'gearbox controller' is the driver. There isn't any electronics controlling the gearchange.


But my car, like all bugs, is a semi-auto in that it has a switchable manual mode - which is activated by moving the gear stick to the right - one then drives the car as if driving a manual transmission save for the absense of a clutch. The paddles I am talking about simply electrically duplicate that existing manual shift action, but place them on the steering wheel for easier reach.

In any case I have now dismantled the assembly and I can see that it is indeed possible to retrofit - as I suspected, with quite minimal work, so I have now answered my own question.

If you could take photos and type any information like that would be useful for others!
A Haynes manual will help eg with removal of steering wheel!
I’ve seen a few floor only auto triples!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:49 am 
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jennyd60 wrote:
...like all bugs, is a semi-auto in that it has a switchable manual mode...

Sorry but this is not correct. The vast majority of bugs are proper, traditional, mechanical manual gearboxes with no automated funny-business whatsoever.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 am
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Drives: 2008 Aygo + 2008 107
ade33 wrote:
jennyd60 wrote:
...like all bugs, is a semi-auto in that it has a switchable manual mode...

Sorry but this is not correct. The vast majority of bugs are proper, traditional, mechanical manual gearboxes with no automated funny-business whatsoever.

Yes, again I can see where my language unfortunately wasnt clear enough, I meant "all AUTO Bugs" - because as far as I know the only auto system fitted is a 2-tronic/MMT system. There arent any traditional auto transmissions (using fluid flywheel type system) on the MK1 bug. If there were then these too would not be modifiable.

My sincere aplogies if I misled anyone with my evident lack of clarity. For the record I have two bugs, both are 2-tronic/MMT semi-auto's so naturally that was my assumed point of entry to the whole subject.

So yes I do indeed understand that the majority or cars are the traditional manual systems, and I did not intend to imply otherwise. I just assumed it would be obvious from the question that I had originally asked, that I would be refering in all my comments ONLY to the automatic variants of the car, of which, as far as I know, do all offer a semi-auto mode via one means or another.

As it happens I am a fully qualified graduate engineer with over 40 years of practical experience in various complex electomechanical systems, so I thought it was fairly obvious that this would be impossible to retrofit to a fully manual car. Therefore I assumed that it would similiarly be obvious that I wasn't talking about manual vehicles, as that would have indicated I was rather lacking in understanding. I guess the moral of the story is never to assume that ones precise meaning, or level of expertise, is obvious to others.

I shall endeavour to be more precise, and to state absolutely everything very clearly in any future questions or postings.

Anyway no worries - onward and upward. On another note I've just successfully completed my first full service on both wee beasties and next week I am going to be replacing the rear axle and wishbone rubber bushes on the higher mileage vehicle as these are rather cracked.

If I get a chance I will of course take and upload photos of any key points which can help others.


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