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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:08 pm 
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Thanks shawnimal Finally got him on the road. I have transferred the car into our sons name and the best we could get was with a black box. 10 month insurance which will give him a full years no claims at the end of it and it was £1360.00 including full breakdown service and legal cover. Still feel like I've been mugged today. Such a big difference from the £200 last year! Still he has to start somewhere!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:24 pm 
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C1Marchie wrote:
it was £1360.00 including full breakdown service and legal cover.




1360 quid to insure a bug? How is that even possible?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:30 pm 
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kaliope wrote:
C1Marchie wrote:
it was £1360.00 including full breakdown service and legal cover.
1360 quid to insure a bug? How is that even possible?


The UK insurance industry really really hates young drivers. They used to charge women significantly less but I believe that was seem as gender discrimination. I am not sure how they can represent so massively more risk than an older driver, but there you go.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:33 am 
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I can't remember the exact details but a couple of years ago I heard an item on the radio that said something like young people below a certain age (don't remember what age) are involved in something like 1/3 of accidents on British roads; so, perhaps less than some people might expect but still disproportionately large. However, they were involved in something like 75% of the fatal accidents.

Like I said, I don't recall the exact figures but I'm pretty sure that it was that kind of ball park. Deaths are expensive.


However, the gender bias thing is interesting. It used to be the case that young male drivers would be hit with high premiums far harder than young female drivers. This was, of course, challenged and, as has been said, identified as gender discrimination. The first thing that annoys me there is what did the claimant think was going to happen: cheaper insurance for all? No, of course not. Female premiums went up instead.

That's not what I find interesting though. Insurance is all about playing the odds and the insurance companies looked at verifiable data and concluded that young male drivers represent a higher financial risk than young female drivers (which they do). So, they charged males higher premiums. From their business model point of view, that makes sense. I know it is unfair to the careful young male driver who has to carry the burden of his reckless peers but, like I said, insurance is about playing the odds and they don't really care about that one careful young male with no easy way to verify how careful he is. As a group, young males represent a greater financial risk.

So (and I'm getting to the point) young people represent a greater financial risk than older people. As a result, young people get charged higher premiums. That's just the insurance companies playing the odds again. So, here's the thing: from the insurer's perspective, a young driver is financially more risky than an older driver and they have data to back this up. They also have similar data to back up their assertion that young males represent a greater risk than young females. Both of these conclusions seem to be valid based on the the information that the insurers use (at least according to them), yet one of these conclusions has been deemed to be discriminatory. So, I wonder, could the age thing not also be regarded as discriminatory?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:44 am 
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Hi Enjay good point, I liked your post but I would expect if premiums were changed due to age discrimination then it would probably mean that older drivers premiums would rise rather than the younger drivers reducing. Just like the female drivers premiums rose to match the male drivers. The insurance company always wins in the end.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Indeed, I certainly wasn't saying this should be the case (as someone who benefits from not having a young person's surcharge, the last thing I want is to lose that). I was merely pointing out that it is inconsistent.

In fact, harsh as it seems, I think the surchage for males is probably correct. If the way the premiums are calculated is based on genuine data and, as a group, young males can be clearly shown to be a greater financial risk to the insurers than young females I don't think that calling it gender discrimination was the right decision. If there is a body of evidence that says young males have more expensive accidents, then I really don't see why organisations with a financial stake in those drivers shouldn't be allowed to charge them more, especially as a startup "we know nothing about your driving record because you don't have one yet" default. I know that sucks as a young male driver (I was one of them at one time too) but, to me, it's not about discrimination it's about evidence.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:39 pm 
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kaliope wrote:
C1Marchie wrote:
it was £1360.00 including full breakdown service and legal cover.




1360 quid to insure a bug? How is that even possible?


First year for my 18 year old daughter was £1500 in Dec 2013. Dropped to £400 in Dec 2014. Outrageous.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:53 pm 
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I agree Gooders thats a huge difference. To be honest I wish they would operate a system for new drivers more like a security deposit or a retrospective discount. I understand they have no history to work with to judge them but for example charge them £1500 and with no claims or accidents at the end of the first year you get 50% back.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:02 pm 
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That sounds like a good idea and it might even encourage careful driving. At present, you just throw your premium into the abyss with a promise that you should pay less the following year if you keep your nose clean. That's quite abstract. I suspect that the possibility of getting some of your own money back at the end of a clean year would feel more tangible and therefore encourage people to look after their investment a bit more. Or maybe not. I don't think it would have made much difference to me and my mates back in the day. :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:57 am 
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Location: Cracow, Poland
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Anyway, here in Poland, this kind of money for an insurance is just beyond any imaginantion. Perhaps you would pay so much to insure a brand new Porsche or Bentley, insurance covering all possible and potential events/accidents (accidents, theft, fire etc)

I pay 60 quid for the bug, and this would rise up to perhaps 200 if I were an adolescent. Of course this is basic, obliagatory insurance which will not cover any theft or accident damage resulting from my fault. If I wanted an insurance covering other things too, I would need to pay something like 250 quid.


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