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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:26 pm 
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kaliope wrote:
1. Let’s get coffee! My treat. = Let’s get coffee! I'm paying. - Are those two equally natural?

2. Does 'treat somebody to' refer to paying only? Can it refer to offering someone something?

-He treated me to dinner' ( He paid for the dinner)
-I visited Marry last night and she treated me to delicious cake. (She said 'please help yourself to some cake')

1. Yes
2. It depends on the context - if you're in a restaurant or cafe it implies that you pay but in someone's home it's just being offered something.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:14 am 
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A medieval water mill in some village is a historic or historical landmark? Oxford says they both fit, do they?

https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/eaff4e0773f01d70


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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:13 pm 
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kaliope wrote:
A medieval water mill in some village is a historic or historical landmark? Oxford says they both fit, do they?

https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/eaff4e0773f01d70

I would always describe an object as historic, but when talking about it I would say it is of historical interest. Once again it's a question of context...

English is a really messed up language - not surprising since it's a mish-mash of just about every European language (with some Asian languages thrown in to add further confusion)!

We often jokingly say that the first Rule of English is "Ignore all the other Rules"!

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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:28 pm 
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PetrolDave wrote:
1. Yes
2. It depends on the context - if you're in a restaurant or cafe it implies that you pay but in someone's home it's just being offered something.

Agreed. #1 definitely and definitely context for #2.

In addition, and in a very similar vein, in a restaurant (etc) you might say something like "put your wallet away, my treat" means "I'm paying".

kaliope wrote:
A medieval water mill in some village is a historic or historical landmark? Oxford says they both fit, do they?

Yes, I'd say that both fit but Dave's explanation is indeed how most people would use the words.

Interesting that you say "a historical" because that flags up another peculiarity. Some people maintain that it should be "an historical" even if you pronounce the h (as some accents would not (many London accents, for example, drop the h sound at the start of most words beginning with h; in which case preceding the word with "an" would make sense - "an 'istoric monument").

Many people would pronounce the h as a "soft consonant" making either "a" or "an" sound equally valid.

Most people I know would say "a historic" just as you wrote it.

I have been unable to find a definitive answer on what is considered correct but, in my experience, day to day common usage is "a" even if "an" might be considered more correct.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Enjay wrote:
Interesting that you say "a historical" because that flags up another peculiarity. Some people maintain that it should be "an historical" even if you pronounce the h (as some accents would not (many London accents, for example, drop the h sound at the start of most words beginning with h; in which case preceding the word with "an" would make sense - "an 'istoric monument").

Many people would pronounce the h as a "soft consonant" making either "a" or "an" sound equally valid.

Most people I know would say "a historic" just as you wrote it.

I have been unable to find a definitive answer on what is considered correct but, in my experience, day to day common usage is "a" even if "an" might be considered more correct.

The whole question of the silent h is something where usage has changed since I was at school in the 1960's

The best example I can think of is the word "homage" - if you listen to the recordings of the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II in 1953 the h is clearly pronounced and that's how it was until around the Millennium when the media (TV, radio, etc.) suddenly dropped the h and now say 'omage. To me, and those of my generation, this is just wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:04 pm 
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I'm not sure how "official" it is but the pronunciation difference seems to carry different meanings/contexts of use (at least where I have noticed the differences).

I think that you would pay homage (with an h sound) to someone deserving of respect (perhaps a monarch).

But you might create some artistic endeavour in the style of another in reference and in respect of the original as an (h)omage (no h sound) to the original work.

Also, the last syllable seems to change with how the h is (or isn't pronounced).

homage tends to be pronounced hom-age
(h)omage tends to be pronounce om-ahj (full (fake) French kind of sound)


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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:30 pm 
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"like something best/the best/most/the most" - Are all four forms correct and natural?

A: I need to pick a dress for the tonight's party. Which one do you like?
B: I like this one best/the best/most/the most. Try it on and we shall see how it suits you.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:44 am 
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I like them all. Flatter her about her figure. And leave it at that.
With women l have always found it better to take the safe ground.
That way no blame comes back to me.


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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:27 am 
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brixtonboy wrote:
I like them all.

Same here.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you say
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 am 
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Enjay wrote:
I'm not sure how "official" it is but the pronunciation difference seems to carry different meanings/contexts of use (at least where I have noticed the differences).

I think that you would pay homage (with an h sound) to someone deserving of respect (perhaps a monarch).

But you might create some artistic endeavour in the style of another in reference and in respect of the original as an (h)omage (no h sound) to the original work.

Also, the last syllable seems to change with how the h is (or isn't pronounced).

homage tends to be pronounced hom-age
(h)omage tends to be pronounce om-ahj (full (fake) French kind of sound)

That's the modern usage I don't agree with - for the first 40+ years of my life the h was never silent regardless of context - in daily usage and on the broadcast media.

I'd be interested to learn who/why/when this modern usage of making the h silent was started, and what their justification is for the change.

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