Citroen C1, Peugeot 107, 108 & Toyota Aygo Owners Club. (Discount code for CityBugStore: C1OC)

It is currently Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:04 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:40 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Paris
Drives: LHD 2009 C1 Confort
The press release for the 2018 facelift of the Toyota Aygo mentions this:

“New AYGO comes in both standard and Eco-versions. The latter benefits from a longer 4th and 5th gear, low Rolling Resistance Coefficient (RRC) tyres, Toyota’s Stop & Start system and aerodynamic improvements.”

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/new-aygo--th ... than-ever/

Question 1: did the C1 and 108 also get taller gearing and the new tyres in 2018?

Question 2: how much taller is 5th gear? I wish it was easier to find detailed technical specs for these cars.

Question 3: how noisey is the current C1 at speed? I’m wondering if there is much improvement compared to my 2009 C1.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:51 pm 
Offline
Full Member

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:02 pm
Posts: 769
Drives: PEUGEOT 107
Don't know about the new 2018 facelift, but considering your last question have you driven a new C1, cos we have a 107 (2008) Urban and 108 (2014) Active and comparing the 2 the 108 is big step up all round, quieter and smoother on the road, I noticed that even on the test drive before we bought it! ok the gearing is geared to economy and for fun driving I prefer our 107, but other than that for refinement and comfort our 108 beats our 107. You mention tyres, our 108 has 15" and the 107 14", so sure that a factor as well and they were both same level in the car's model range.

If it like the previous generation cars where the improvements between the so called '3 phases' were minimal each time, i.e. emissions etc, from the article I would guess the same to be true of the new cars. The stop start mentioned rang a bell, so just checked a Peugeot 108 brochure I found online 3 years ago when we got our 108 and that details stop start back in December 2014, so it hardly new, but only on the 1.0 Active, so presume that a bit of Toyota cleverness! Can't really help with actual gearing etc., but this just my experiences living with both cars!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:40 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Paris
Drives: LHD 2009 C1 Confort
Thanks. Helpful.

No, I haven’t driven any of the second-gen cars.

Does your 108 have the 1.0 or 1.2 litre engine? Because it wouldn’t surprise me if the 1.2, being newer and used in cars as expensive as the 308 in naturally aspirated form, is more refined than the Daihatsu/Toyota 1-litre (as great as that little engine is).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:55 pm 
Offline
Full Member

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:02 pm
Posts: 769
Drives: PEUGEOT 107
Ours is 1.0 Toyota engine, stuck with what I know same/similar as our 107, to be fair one reasons bought our 107 back in 2008 was seeing all those toyota badges on the mechanical/oily bits, but thinking back when we got our 108 the 1.2 was mostly in the higher spec 108s, which weren't in our price range anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:10 am 
Offline
Full Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:59 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Woking, Surrey
Drives: 2015 Citroen C1 Feel
I have driven a 2019 C1, and a 2015 C1. There is a noticable difference in the way it performs, the engine in the new car definitely feels like it has a bit more oomph.

2015 has a 1.0 1KR-FE engine

Image

2019 also has a 1.0 1KR-FE engine

Image

2015 C1 Emissions: 95 g/km
2019 C1 Emissions: 93 g/km
2015 C1 produces 68bhp
2019 C1 produces 72bhp

What I notice from driving both is the 2019 is much quieter inside, less road noise.
Tyres are the same on both 165/60 15 H Continental Eco Contact 5s
Gearing is definitely taller in 4th & 5th on the newer car.

_________________
2015 Citroen C1 Feel 1.0

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:40 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Paris
Drives: LHD 2009 C1 Confort
Thanks for that confirmation.

So it looks like there were two step-changes in noise: the 2014 second gen and the 2018 facelift. There is a long press release about the facelift here:

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/2018-aygo-presskit/

It goes into detail about the engine and NVH changes, which appear to be substantial.

There is also talk about an Eco version of the Aygo in that press release. I can’t find any mention of that on the Toyota website. Maybe it was since discontinued and/or the Eco features (tyres, unspecified aero tweaks) integrated into the regular model.

It sounds like a third-generation 108 and C1 are not in the pipeline, while Toyota is taking over the factory and dropping hints about a crossover-style replacement. These brilliant cars may be the last of the truly simple, mainly analogue, purely ICE breed. A good bet for the long-term owner, probably. Hmm.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:16 pm 
Offline
Full Member

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:02 pm
Posts: 769
Drives: PEUGEOT 107
Thanks danmersonuk, you the perfect person to answer, interesting the airbox plastic is very snakey on the 2019, did they move the air filter location further back into the engine bay? that could explain a lot cos like your 2015 C1 noticed in our 107/108 they in the same sort of location. Has anything else changed/moved location that you can see?, brake fluid reservoir?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:09 pm 
Offline
Full Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:29 pm
Posts: 1331
Location: South Molton
Drives: 2008 Citroen C1 Code
Looks to me like the 2019 has a smaller air cleaner and a possibly a crankcase breather system (the smaller pipe in the "snake").

_________________
2008 C1 Code 1.0 I3 petrol
2015 Skoda Octavia 1.4TSI Elegance estate


Sadly missed - 2006 Audi RS4 Avant


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:40 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Paris
Drives: LHD 2009 C1 Confort
Surely they’ve had crankcase breathers forever? I wonder if the exhaust gas recirculation might be piped up there. It’s cooled in later engines, but I don’t know where the cooler is.

The long and winding intake is some sort of tuning, probably to increase power at low speed by increasing the intake velocity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:02 pm
Posts: 91
Drives: 2007 107 Urban 5dr
We own a 2007 1.0 and i work for a sister company Citroen dealership so i've driven quite a few of the newer models in both 1.0 and 1.2 forms.

The 'mk2' models do feel quite different to drive and be in than the first ones. You can tell underneath they are similar, however they are quite different to drive.

My main thoughts are, the MK2 is:

More refined in terms of road, wind noise etc. Not massively so, but a notch up.

Smoother ride. I've aways thought the mk1s ride was a bit jittery (although this does help with handling and higher speed stabilty)

IMO - better gearchange. The first is decent IMO, but the MK2 improves.

Maybe slightly less good steering. Slightly lighter, less feel.

Improved rorty noise from the 1.0 under throttle. Addictive.

Maybe less 'go karty' handling, you can feel the car body moving about more on the suspension. Still good fun though.

Much better boot access due to the parcel shelf moving up and out of the way with the window (might not apply to Aygo) and a bigger boot, too. (again i think the Aygos might still be smaller)

Nicer cabin, less spartan (although some may see the simpleness as a good thing, i probably do). More supportive and comfy seats.

BUT!!! These very seats have reduced the practicality somewhat.

I'm 6ft 2 and can easily sit behind myself in the Mk1, which is excellent for how small a car the 107 is.

However...in the new model, the seats are both bigger and chunkier....and deeper. Rear legroom is reduced. To get the same legroom as the mk1, the front seat needs to be moved quite far forward, maybe impractically so.
The rear bench seats look very much the same as the mk1 (with diffetent materials etc) - however i found the headroom reduced also so i dont know if they are slight higher set, or something.

Engines - the 1.0 in the mk2 does feel to me, very similar to the mk1. It sounds simiar and goes similar. It does feel a bit more nippy, but out 107 has definitely lost some horses over the years, so the difference is more stark than perhaps it is really.

I've also driven one of the latest '71ps' 1.0s and to be honest, i found it a bit sluggish - but it was pretty much branch new and i suspect, still tight.

The 1.2 (82ps) does offer quite a noticable performance boost over the 1.0. Perhaps not intially feeling that different but when on the move, definitely having more oomph when required.

I'd say the 1.0 is the sweeter engine. It's very smooth and quiet indeed in general use, with a nice induction rort under heavy use. Almost silent at idle.

The 1.2 to me isnt quite as well resolved - there is a tiny bit more 'shimmy' through the car. The engne sounds good when extended - but it does have a strange, almost diesel like tickety tick tickover, i guess from the injectors. At first i thoght it might have a problem, but i can confirm all the 1.2s sound like this, in almost any installation.
The 1.2 is a cam belt rather than chain, too.

Overall....i'd probably still go for the 1.0 with it being a more proven Toyota design, and chain cam. I could understand why people would choose the 1.2 though, as it does go very well.

Just my thoughts!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group