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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:07 pm 
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Sorry to hijack the thread. Can't seem to find the PM button.
HAve you experimented with brake pads?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:19 pm 
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roop298 wrote:
Have you experimented with brake pads?


Yeah man, what do you want to know?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:10 pm 
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No dont Hijack him. he wont be able to do his video tonight.

Let the Wizard do his work.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:24 pm 
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:lol:


Roop, the standard brakes are very good.

Generally I'd always fit brembo oe pads and discs; pagid are also decent but wear a bit quicker iirc. I'd consume 2 oe sets of pads to one disc. The performance of the OE gear is all much and such.

I now use mintex 1144 pads with brembo OE discs and it's a mighty combo, they just cost a lot and squeal often.

Personally I find the standard pads are really grabby, will stop well but can feel a little elastic at times and begin to fade when they get hot. If you're doing big stops this can happen in one braking event: they'll bite when you press the pedal initially then tail off as the temp rises and you slow down, so you have to press the brake harder and harder until you come to a stop.

The 1144 dont grab any harder but theyre consistent through the braking event so you can really stand on them to stop quicker - the pad is a lot harder compound which takes away that elasticity and they just keep going really, not much fade.
By contrast I now wear the oe discs out quicker than the mintex pads.

OE pads are about £20 a set, OE brembos might be around 30. The Mintex 1144 pads are about £80 a set.

I've tried EBC green stuff pads in the past too.
Dont. They're terrible.


That's all there is to it really. If you're on a cheap set or even the pagids, I'd see how you get on with the OE brembos.
If you still struggle with brake fade then maybe consider something like the mintex pads. Either way these things stop dead so it just depends what you're looking for and what issues you run into with your style of driving.



Garry, no videos but gimme an hour to process the pics because there are a few important things to point out...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:30 am 
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Presenting the Piper M041.


Image


I was actually quite surprised how good this looks, their product imaging kind of under-sells on my initial impression but I think there's a reason for that which we'll get to...



Image


As stated, the manifold features 1.5" primaries into a 2" collector which actually bottlenecks into a 1 3/8" spigot to accommodate the standard downpipe (yes even on their full 2" system). In metric ID that's 3x 35mm pipes converging into a single 30mm downpipe.. No matter what unit of measurement you use that is always going to seem strange when you consider that conventional exhaust design principles dictate narrower primaries should converge into a fatter downpipe.
The logical explanation for this and the one I'll stick with unless someone can offer a technical alternative, is just that the manifold has been designed within the dimensions of the original item to easily integrate with the standard exhaust and make it a more appealing 'click & fit' product to people who don't know a great deal about exhaust design. The manifold dimensions are therefore based on marketing & not necessarily on the best performance.

Anyway, onto the finer points...



Image


You can see here the merge in the collector is a mess. This is a shame because the welding that's visible on the outside looks alright. This is like the most critical performance area too. I'm really going to have to clean this up with the dremel or something.



Image


As for the flange, great penetration of the welds here and you can see how much heat has been put in to make sure its solid & gas tight.
Unfortunately, the weld actually bulges on the flange surface in places preventing the face from sitting flush against the cylinder head and crushing the gasket properly. The flange is also warped slightly from the heat - This is normal during the fabrication process;
what I'd expect to see here on the final product is a nice skimmed flat surface ready to mate to the engine but they haven't even tried to achieve that. As it is this will barely seal and it's pretty frustrating having to send a new manifold off to be skimmed before I can fit it.


Image

Nobody wants a raw flange.


I'm also going to have to weld on the lower mounting tab that's missing, to prevent the manifold being strained & cracking when the engine rocks - a problem I'm all too familiar with.


Image


Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to bash Piper. Most of their manifolds are twice the price and I expect on a different level.
I think it's awesome that they've made a manifold available at this price but that itself needs to be taken into consideration: To build this thing in the time required by this price point there are key details that have been overlooked - as such it seems up to the end user to sort it out and make it functional. You can't expect perfection but I'd like to have seen and been told exactly what I was buying beforehand - communication has been quite poor tbh. I've still no idea how this thing affects the torque curve of the engine for example and the guy at Piper stopped replying to my email when I asked these questions :?


As it is I'm not too disappointed, though if I weren't able to identify and correct these problems myself I might be a little more pissed.

I bought it for the new engine but given that I don't know what the performance is like I might test it on the current engine over the next few days to get a feel for it, assuming the flange will seal.

Garry, you may well get your video :wave:


Image

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:35 am 
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On a 3-cylinder engine the firing pulses are separated by 240 crank degrees so don't compete for flow area in the collector allowing the collector output to be the same size as the primaries.

That principle applies to the primaries on I6, V6 and V12 engines although they need larger pipework downstream when the secondaries merge - think of an I3 as one bank of a V6.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:58 am 
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Black Grouse wrote:
On a 3-cylinder engine the firing pulses are separated by 240 crank degrees so don't compete for flow area in the collector allowing the collector output to be the same size as the primaries.


Thanks that's a good way of explaining it to people. It's also handy for keeping the cylinders dust free in the garage as the valves all park closed :lol:
As I said in my first post on the subject a few pages back , I'd personally consider a 1.5" downpipe to be ideal. The 1 3/8" spigot used here is 5mm narrower than the primaries' ID. It's actually 1-2mm narrower than the exhaust ports themselves.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:51 am 
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Nice, reminds me of the good old days before rules, emissions and cats spoiled all the fun, but good to see they still making stuff like this considering a deminishing market.

Shame the fit n finish is a bit iffy, maybe it a sign of the times, the stainless dual exhaust I fitted to my Mondeo years ago even the hangers were spot on, surprised when rolling road showed no gains, heyho, but it did look good :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:43 pm 
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Steve107 wrote:
Nice, reminds me of the good old days before rules, emissions and cats spoiled all the fun, but good to see they still making stuff like this considering a deminishing market.

Shame the fit n finish is a bit iffy, maybe it a sign of the times, the stainless dual exhaust I fitted to my Mondeo years ago even the hangers were spot on, surprised when rolling road showed no gains, heyho, but it did look good :lol:


Regular production exhausts, and inlets, improved immeasurably in the '70/80s - remember Austin A-series with siamesed ports and cast iron manifolds with right-angle bends - by the time I moved onto Vauxhalls in the mid-80s they had 4-2-1 fabricated exhausts as standard.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:13 pm 
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Amazing stuff in the thread tonight. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Ill wait and see how you get on with that manifold before i ask if i can have one for Christmas.

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