Citroen C1, Peugeot 107, 108 & Toyota Aygo Owners Club. (Discount code for CityBugStore: C1OC)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:42 pm 
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Location: Hexham
Drives: 2011 107
You guys must be loaded :lol:

I was interested in those C1 Cup CECAMs but sadly not for that price.
Piper have also started making a manifold - It's mild steel and fugly but £150 which I can't complain about.

The tubing looks massive by comparison though so I'm not sure what it'll do to the torque curve - just waiting to hear back from them with some details...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:04 pm 
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have a link to the Piper Bunkey ?

Hows the Lamba mod doing ?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:14 am 
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Location: Hexham
Drives: 2011 107
It's on their website, item number is M041 but there aren't any details besides the stock image and price above. They have a full system available which features a 2" centre pipe section, I imagine the manifold is designed to interface with that.
No pictures of the centre pipe or the rest of the system unfortunately.

A 2" (50.2mm) system seems pretty girthy compared to the standard 32mm pipe or the 1.5" (38mm) tubing that I'd personally consider an upgrade, so I'm worried about giving up mid-range torque for top end. I'll have to wait and see what they say to it as I could well be overestimating how the tube diameter relates to torque output.


The lambda mod is doing what I hoped it would in outputting a steady signal but I dont think a flat signal is what the ECU expects to see so there's still some work to be done there. MPJ has been very involved with this too and I have to thank him for the data he's been sending with the standard cat & sensor fitted. It's all still a work in progress.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:04 pm
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Location: Italy
Drives: '06 C1 1.4HDI
Hi Bunkey!

I've few questions about the rims/tyres.

You wrote that you bought 4 OZ rims which were mounted on a MX5 (NA, I'm right?) and you've fitted them on the 107.

The bolt hub to studs conversion is necessary to mount that kind of wheel or is possible to maintain the OEM bolt hubs?

How do you feel with the Nankang NS2-R on the 107? You tryied different tyres on 185/60 r14?

I've drove an Honda Integra Type R with that Nankang tyres and they felt really good (thanks also to the car).

I'm inspired by your setup and I would mount Koni STR.T + 185/60 r14 for track days on my C1.

During my first trackday last Sunday, with the car totally stock (I've only removed Rear seats, rear floor mats and the spare wheel kit) I understood that my C1 seriously needs a decent suspension kit and decent Tyres/rims (the steelies here in Italy are good only during winter, due to the high temperatures) before to hit the track again.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Location: Hexham
Drives: 2011 107
Hey, thanks for the message. Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to you..

Ok so to answer your questions:

Quote:
You wrote that you bought 4 OZ rims which were mounted on a MX5 (NA, I'm right?) and you've fitted them on the 107.
The bolt hub to studs conversion is necessary to mount that kind of wheel or is possible to maintain the OEM bolt hubs?
Yeah I bought them from a guy who raced mx5's and mr2's - I think they were fitted to an early mx5. They're 6Jx14 et45. I'm using 10mm slip on spacers to take them to et35, it's a nice fit and I'd be cautious of the wider wheel rubbing on the damper without that spacer there. The spacer covers the spigot ring on the hub so the wheel doesn't locate properly; using studs keeps it a bit more secure and easy to fit/centre. You could use bolts as long as they're the right taper and narrow enough to fit in the wheel but I recommend studs when fitting spacers.

Quote:
How do you feel with the Nankang NS2-R on the 107? You tryied different tyres on 185/60 r14?

I first fitted NS2-R's in that size and honestly it was a bad choice on this car. They're a bit too stiff and they cause a lot of drag for a small engine to overcome. It was too grippy for my driving style, like cornering on rails but there was no feel and it was actually difficult to get the car rotating.
I was talking with the guy who runs the new BRSCC CityCar Cup a few weeks ago (they also use ns2r); I noticed they spec softer 80a front wishbone rear bushes with 95a front bushes and he told me this was for the same reason: there's no feel in the tyre so they fit softer bushes at the back of the wishbone to try and compensate for that by adding a bit of flex into the suspension.

They're great tyres on slightly bigger/heavier cars like the type r but they just dont suit the 107.

The other problem is gearing. That tyre size is huge and it makes the already long gearing even worse!

I've since switched to a 185/50r14 yokohama a539 and it's my favourite tyre by far. It feels really good, predictable, works in any condition and you can use the weight shift to rotate the car properly; there's less grip overall but I find I can drive faster on these just because the car is more fluid and lively. They're also slightly smaller radius than the standard 155/65r14 which helps the gearing.

I'd recommend looking at 175 and 165 options too.
I had 175/60 a539's on this and they were good, I then went to the 185/50's just for the smaller radius to help gearing.

If you're budget limited you could try a grippy 155/55 tyre on the steel rims - The C1 Racing Club use nankang as1's, they do a 24h race at Spa without issues. This size would allow better speed with less drag than wider tyres and I think they'd be fun in the corners - It depends on your driving style and confidence really.

That's my experience anyway.


Also have a look at the *Weichers front lower strut brace which fits between the front wishbone mounting points - they're great for track, cost £36 here and make a huge improvement to steering feel/response especially with grippier tyres.


Hope this helps.

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Last edited by Bunkey on Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:41 pm 
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Drives: charade, mx5
Bunkey wrote:
SlackGarry wrote:
Hows it coming on Bunkey ?

Great thanks! The engine's good, I'm overdue a closing update to the cylinder head rebuild thread but in summary I had it MOT'd a couple of months ago and I've done a few thousand miles since then without issue really.
It's breathing a bit better than the ecu can account for so it runs lean and we had to play with the vacuum hoses to get it through emissions - but I should be able to get it remapped to account for the head work and it'll come good. On a hot day when the air is thin it's pretty rapid!

Played with a few other bits since then too, see below..


Ive started reading front to back now rather than dipping in all over. I think I've missed a post.
You said you weren't going to remap the std ecu previously but above you are refering to it getting done. Is this on the std one or a 221/MS?

Also, how are you assessing it's running lean? Emissions?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Location: Hexham
Drives: 2011 107
roop298 wrote:
You said you weren't going to remap the std ecu previously but above you are refering to it getting done. Is this on the std one or a 221/MS?

Also, how are you assessing it's running lean? Emissions?


It wasn't my plan to remap but if it needs doing for the engine to run properly then I have to consider it. I've since seen a couple of places offering plug and play ecu remaps for the 1KR-FE so it's more accessible than I'd thought however; I have a set of individual throttle bodies that I'd like to put on the car - in this case I'll hold off until I can find a cheap megasquirt unit.

Yeah the emmissions test picked it up. Unfortunately the engine is pretty toasted now, the rings aren't holding and I'm burning oil as quickly as petrol, so I think the underfuelling is more likely a result of the lambda misreading the A/F ratio.

Just picked up a replacement engine and gearbox so it's something I might look into..

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:17 pm 
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Hi Bunkey, What are the throttle bodies off ? Are you going to make your own inlet manifold for this.

Its getting really interesting now.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:56 pm
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Location: Hexham
Drives: 2011 107
They're 42mm K2 GSXR1000 tb's I picked up years ago for a fiesta. 42mm is a bit big for this but should work ok with long pipes. Obv's its a 4cyl bike but these can be separated and respaced so no issues. It's gonna be a while before I can get them running though tbh.

I'll probably outsource the manifold cos I want that taper into the oval ports to be right, it should be pretty simple to connect up with silicone hose joiners after that.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:19 pm 
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Location: Italy
Drives: '06 C1 1.4HDI
Thank you so much for the advices!

I'll look for spacers too and studs.

At the moment, the first thing I have to do is the Remap (mine is the diesel version). Then, with the right power to the wheels, I'll get a koni strt kit, brake fluid and rear brakes change and maybe improved brake pipes.

About the wheels, on track I used some old Pirelli cinturato on the steel rims and during last laps they lost a lot of grip. On the daily rims I have some as1 on steelies in 155 65 r14 and they do a good job, also on narrow mountain roads and wet conditions.

I need a wider Tyre of for trackday, also the smaller radius for gearing is what I'm looking for.

The diesel version has a shorter gear ratio than the petrol one, so if I'll reach the goal of 80hp/170nm of power/torque, it will be really interesting to see how it could improve the 0-100.



Thanks also for the strut bar advice!


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